1927 16H Norton

The 1927 Norton 16H. Nice bike but no match for the 1928 M18 that followed so she had to go. Well, we're not owners anyway, just keepers, looking after them for a while before they move on. More on Paul's blog.

c1924 Model 18 Norton

A c1924 Model 18 Norton; with a few extra bits and pieces fitted that may have to do with the electric lights? Martin: "The ER numbers were first issued by Cambridgeshire in July 1922, and finished in September 1928 when the VE series started." Simon: "Note the usual Best and Lloyd oil pump but the outlet from it does not go to a Y-piece for dripping onto both inlet and exhaust cams - as later - but just goes to a single union above the exhaust cam..."

1926 Model 18 Norton

A nice shot of a circa 1926 Model 18.

Geoff's 1928 Model 16H Norton

Sent by Geoff in the UK

Geoff: "Above two pics of my 1928 16H when I bought it in 2006. As you can see it was an oily rag. I only let it go in 2007 because I wanted the Zenith Super Eight a friend was selling and he wouldn't let me have the Zenith unless I swapped the Norton in exchange! For some reason the carb was removed. It now has the correct cylinder as it came with a later barrel and separate head. The friend I sold it to has restored it to his liking (below). I have recently bought it back!

It came from the Isle of Man and the reg no MN 1150 has now been taken off as an Isle of Man number cannot be used in the UK. In the UK we can keep and transfer registration numbers so as I had the number TT 1358 (which I took from a Mini car I had one time) I have put it on the 16H. I have an original 7" Horton front wheel I am going to fit. It has a post war carb and I have a spare B&B carb. that should be OK"

1923 Model 16H Norton

Sent by David in the UK

David: "I have recently unearthed this Norton 16H. It has been in a shed for the last 30 years and I think it is quite interesting as it has a separate oil tank and a mousetrap carburettor. I have been told it was raced by a Mr Jack Underwood. The bike will be kept in this condition and not restored."

Simon: "The numbers (frame number 65XX and engine number 42XX) match up - albeit the frame number is shown in the Works records as 65XXs. However the info in the records is disappointingly sparse. The model is shown as 16H and the magneto number as 122914, with Brown and Barlow carburetter and 26 x 2 1/2 tyres.  No gearbox number given. On the despatch details page, all that is entered is the 'card number' (I guess this is the works job card or build card for the bike) 3743. At this stage, this situation seems to have been commonplace - on this particular page (the first that exists incidentally) of 19 entries only 10 show the dealers to whom the bikes were sent and no end user details are shown atall. Despatch dates shown for the ten are all in the range November '22 to January '23. All were 16Hs. 


Regarding the 16H, it does look 'later'. I guess yes a 1923 model originally. I think the separate oil tank was fitted to the '23 works bikes and doubtless could be ordered if wanted but perhaps was a later fitment. The tank looks wide for this date. Also note the forks are the posh variety of Druids with the dampers - not fitted as standard. Fitting a mousetrap Binks was the twenties equivalent of the 'go faster' stick-on stripes for cars in the fifties/sixties. But bear in mind that the early twenties 16H could be made to go. Driscoll reckoned his ex works 16H was better by far than the first OHV bike he got! The oil pump is a later fitment too - furthermore it is a Pilgrim and not a Best and Lloyd. 


I don't know of any Jack Underwood though there are a couple of J. Underwoods who were VMCC members in the 1988 VMCC members list - one living in Blandford and the other in Crawley. One of them (the Blandford one) was a member in 1973 but neither in 1960....Judging by the Blandford Underwood's membership number he must have joined the club in the late sixties.  None of this is really much help!"


Martin:"The registration is a Gloucester County Council one issued in 1929, so whatever it did between 1923 and 1929, it did so with another identity.  By 1929, a 16H would have been passe, but as I know from running a 1920 16H, they have a lot more spirit than many early OHVs, and it would still have been a capable performer in 1929."

1928 Model 18 Norton - For sale

For sale at Ron's; not a bargain! Contact Ron directly, the Norton is not on his website.

Grandfather's c1923 Model 18 Norton

Sent by Al in the UK.

"This shot is of my grandfather (who was a great Norton fan who used to visit Brookland regularly pre war) and my grandmother on his Model 18 at Hayling Island, Hampshire sometime in the late 1920's. I wonder if PC 3978 is still around. (JdK: PC 3978 was issued from July 1921 to July 1923 by Surrey C.C. (currently Guildford). It probably is a 1923 model then. Quite sporty, note the narrow mudguards, open primary chaincase and open exhaust). I've been trying to get hold of a flat tank Model 18 for ages similar to his! I'm looking for a flat tank Model 18 - project / box of bits, or what have you ? I have a 1923 Sunbeam 500 sv Sports TT short stroke flat tanker, 100% original for possible exchange; the bike is MOT's and taxed with a rebuilt engine. (below)"

Anyone interested in a swap can contact John

1925 Model 18 - For sale

It's that 1925 M18 again... For sale via this link; asking price 19.500 euro.

Dan O'Donovan on a c1920 Model 16H Norton

Roger:"The registration and the chain drive indicates a post-war event. From the registration and the riding number my best estimate is the 1920 Isle of Man TT where Dan was team manager."

Martin:"The interesting thing about this picture of O'Donovan is that it has a Leicester number. Look at page 62 of the Woollett book (above) and you will see the Norton camp at the 1920 TT. The bike at the front which isn't described in Woollett's caption belonged to Leicester motorcycle dealer Harold Petty and below is an extract of the Leicester county records showing the details of this bike which was finally scrapped in 1934, its last owner having had it attached to a sidecar, a sad end for an ex TT bike! .

Petty retired in the 1920 TT but Nortons did better than ever that year, coming 2, 4, 7, 8. 10, 11, 13 and 14, and four other Norton riders apart from Petty retired. 11th was Norman Black on the last Norton belt drive TT entry, a pretty good effort for his first ever TT ride, the start of a longish TT career through the twenties. The question I would want to ask about this picture is was this a Petty-owned (and hence Leicester registered) bike, and if so, why was O'Donovan riding it? I will get the entry from the Leicester public record office so we can see whose bike it was!! Possibly it was a bike ridden in the 1920  by a rider who retired and maybe D'Donovan rode it before or after the race, as he wasn't a rider himself by that time, his only TT rides being 1913 and 1914."

Update 05 July: I now have the registration data on this machine, and it was actually a 1920 4HP Model 1 (ie a Big Four) not a 16H at all.  That said, the machine pictured looks suspiciously like a 16H as the frame and tank of a Big Four are normally different around the steering head, so the mystery deepens.  What is certain however is that the machine was originally registered to Harold Petty as I suspected, the number dates from 1920 (19 May to be precise) and the machine is frame no 2530, engine no 20328, which is a bit earlier than the 16H Petty rode in the 1920 TT (frame no 2692, engine no 20389). Still no idea why Dan O'Donovan should have been pictured astride the machine, or what the race the number attached refers to...

As with all things to do with Nortons, the more you find out, the more you realise that nothing is as straightforward as it seems.

Petty's dealership was still active in Leicester until it closed in the 1970s.  I found a nice piece about them on another blog...

"At the top end of London Rd was Leicester's own Velocette dealer- Messr's Petty's. Here was a place where time stood still. The cut and thrust of business in the 1970's was not really for them. Customers were addressed as "sir" and the whole manner was more akin to a gents outfitters than a busy motor-cycle shop. Many of us called in on a Saturday afternoon, not to part with money, but to listen to "young" Harold recall the halcyon days of motor cycling. If anyone wished to buy something, Saturday Geoff was summoned, and the part required described in detail. In a scene reminiscent of Grace Brothers "are you being served" he would enquire if Hilda (who had an encyclopedic knowledge of all things Velocette) was "free". She would then fetch the part, place it in a bag for you, issue a till receipt and amend the stock records. 

Meanwhile outside Petty's the entertainment continued, with us teenagers gathering around to watch various motor cyclists following the starting procedure, or ritual, to bring a hot engined Velo into life. It seemed to us that the number of kicks to start a Velo was directly proportional to the number of people watching!! 

Sometime in the 70's Petty's closed, and the names, faces, and genteel procedures passed into motor-cycling folk-lore."

Jeff's 1927 Model 18 Norton

Sent by Jeff is Australia

"Here are some pics of my Norton. As you can see, it's incomplete at this stage."

1928 Model 24 - For sale

For sale at Verralls; a flat tank Norton described as an original 1928 Model 24. I've never seen one before but when the description is correct the dry-sump 588cc engine (!) sitting next to it would originally have been fitted. The 4-speed box is correct for this model. There were a few 588 dry-sump ES2 engines made/sold by Nortons; it is only the differing main shaft diameters which means that standard 588 flywheels can't be used in ES2s so in that respect it could be correct. A very interesting flat tanker with a hefty price tag at £21,500 (for which off course you also get the spare Model 18 engine).

Ian Hatton:"It's a 588cc OHV with the Model 25 type recirculating oiling system. Standard Model 18 engine is presently fitted but I have included a pic of the oil tank to show the return oil line. Obviously the external oil pump is not correct. Also has a four speed cross over gearbox. I believe all these details to be original."

Norton at the 1914 Isle of Man TT

This photo was taken on Ramsey Promenade during the 1914 TT races on the Isle of Man. From left to right: Dan O'Donovan, the Braid Brothers, James Norton and his father sitting inside the sidecar combination. The motorcycles would be TT Model 9's or 3 1/2 HP models while Pa Norton brought his Big Four. This is another pic of Ossie Braid on this very machine.

...same day, same people, except for James' father.

...and looking at the rider's number (59), this must be Dan at the 1914 TT.

1928 Model 18 Norton

Sold at Bonhams

1928 Norton 490cc Model 18. Registration no. VW 4704. Frame no. 29074. Engine no. 36093. This matching-numbers Model 18 was sent to a dealer in Leytonstone on 18th November 1927 and sold new to a Mr Cox of Chigwell. Sold for £16,100 on the 24th of april 2011.

c1924 Model 18 Norton

This picture shows mr Karel van Berlage and his Model 18 Norton at the very first Dutch TT held in 1925. Fifteen motorcycles competed in the 500cc class, six of which were Nortons. The race was won by Piet van Wijngaarden on his 1925 Model 18.

Karel's Norton looks a bit outdated compared to Piet's Model 18; is it a 1924 model?

Stanley on the 1926 senior TT winning Norton

Not yet the Model 25 but already incorporating the dry sump lubrication which would be visible if the label was not exactly at the lower end of the timing chest! Read this blog entry by Simon for more info about this Norton.

...and below find a similar picture (sent by Martin) probably taken within seconds of the one above and now without the label over the timing chest!

1912 Model 9 Norton

Sent by Alf. From an article in Classic Motorcycling Legends No. 5

1921 advertisement

Sent by Alf. From The Motor Cycle, November 24th, 1921

1916 Model Big Four Norton

"In yard of Queen's Head Coventry. Wartime Norton m/c on test 1916 or 1917" is written on the rear of this photo. In "Perfect in Every Part", a book on Francis Simpson.

The Norton in the picture would be a 1916/1917 model destined for the Russian army. Note the full enclosure of the rear chain the the additional set of footrests.

Simon: "A friend of mine has one of these WW1 Big Fours which came from Finland and is almost certainly one of those sent to Russia before the Revolution. Juris in Latvia has another which he acquired in Moscow a few years ago."

1927 rear carrier

Sent  by Albert

Attached a drawing of the 1927 Norton Model 18 carrier. It may be useful to someone who is missing this this item. The measurements are off an original 1927 one.

1910 Model 3 1/2 Norton

Sent by Andrew in Australia

This Norton is an original machine. It belonged to Eric Langton (brother of Oliver). It came out of South Australia about 40 years ago. It had corroded crankcases and Eric made a pattern and cast new ones but I have the original cases in my shed. I took these and lots more photos in the ally way behind the house where it is stored. I then took it home and fixed the magneto and rode it a few times. It went really well. I spent a far amount of time talking with Eric about pattern making and lots about riding for the Scott factory in the TT and then lots about world champianship speed way racing, all very interesting. I have just about finished a pattern for the cylinders for this machine if someone needs one.